The World Feels Loud

SPEAKER_10 0:04

Welcome back to Hei Ong. Pull up a chair and take a deep breath. No, seriously. Take a deep breath with me right now. And let's just sit in this space for a minute. Lately, it feels like the volume of the world has been turned up to a deafening level. You check your phone and it's a wave of unrest. You turn on the news and it's a masterclass in uncertainty. Whether it's the political climate here in the States or the shifting sands of global events, there's a low frequency hum of anxiety that seems to be vibrating underneath everything we do. It's like trying to live on top of a literal earthquake. I've had so many conversations saying the same thing. I just feel shaky. It feels like I'm waiting for the next shoe to drop. Well, tonight we're going and we're not going to fix the world's problems. That's a tall order for a podcast. But we are going to talk about how to keep you from cracking under that pressure. We're diving into how to stay grounded when the ground itself feels unreliable. And maybe more importantly, we're talking about how to speak to the people we love when everyone's nerves are free to the breaking point. Because when the world gets loud, our circles need to be our sanctuary, not another battlefield. So this episode is called Anxiety and Uncertain Times Staying Grounded When the World Feels Shaky. Strap in, grab your favorite beverage, and let's get into it.

Meet Dr. Brock Grace

SPEAKER_10 1:48

Fellas. What's up? What up? How do you know? Doing well. So we have a return guest, our first return guest uh to the podcast, uh Dr. Brock Grace has joined us uh for this important conversation. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Thank you guys for having me back. It's an honor.

SPEAKER_10 2:06

Absolutely, absolutely. Uh we really wanted to bring you into this conversation uh to give us some insights, not only from a professional standpoint uh and your experience with give grace uh counseling, but also, you know, you're a dad, you're a husband, yes. So navigating all of this as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Before we get into that, let's let's can we just give them a little love and can you share with us exactly what the things that you got going on right now from a professional standpoint?

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Absolutely. So currently we are in the process of expanding, um, in the process of hiring four new therapists, just moved across the top of the top floor of the building we at. So things are going well for us professionally. That's also a bad thing because, like Shannon said earlier, the world is dealing a lot of anxiety and things like that, which keeps us in business, but you never want to see the world the state that it's in. But there are some things that we can do to help with anxiety shannon, like you mentioned, and if we can practice the actual breathing technique right now on air.

The 4-7-8 Breathing Reset

SPEAKER_04 3:07

So it's called the 478 technique. So what I want you guys to do is we're gonna breathe in for four seconds, we're gonna hold it for seven, and we're gonna release for eight. You do this for three cycles to kind of just bring the anxiety level down. So I'll count if you guys would go.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

So breathe in, one, two, three, four, hold it, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and I release for eight. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

What that does over time is it'll get to control your breathing. Because as you know, anxiety speeds up your heart rate. But does everybody know what anxiety is?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Probably not, yeah. I think we all have our own definition, but clinically speaking, I would say no. But if I had to just put it quick quickly, um it's just the fear of the unknown, in my opinion. Yeah. It's a great example.

SPEAKER_10 4:02

Yeah. I I think my version of anxiety is feeling like you're not accomplishing anything. Like you're just on a treadmill or spinning in the same place.

SPEAKER_08 4:13

Not knowing what's coming next, not being able to control your own environment.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

So anxiety is always a futuristic event. Hasn't happened yet. And usually we tell ourselves what we think is going to happen based on the negative outcomes of it. What if this doesn't happen? You always hear people say, Well, what if it doesn't work out? Anxiety is your imagination. Nothing you're telling yourself has really happened yet. So I would ask you to now think about those bad situations and now flip it to think, what if it does work out? Because we can imagine winning a million dollars and what we would do with that. But when things get heavy in the world, we always think it's gonna be the worst case scenario. So we practice ways with anxiety to decrease it by thinking about what you can do that's gonna be a positive outcome, which can be a daunting task for a lot of people to think, well, what if it all works out?

SPEAKER_10 4:56

You know, and that's that is an interesting way to look at it. Cause even when we were starting the studio, so I can speak from experience, our hesitations were always about, well, what if we lose this money? It was the initial concept was the excitement about, hey, let's go build something. But then when we started getting into it, it was always the okay, well, how can we cut back and how can we, you know, uh how can we limit it so that we protect ourselves, not go all in and and chase that positive.

Fear Versus Doing It Scared

SPEAKER_10 5:34

You know, it's uh that that's an interesting way to look at it.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

And as you did the podcast, did you do it scared or did the fear stop you from doing it though? Because there's a difference between fear and being afraid.

SPEAKER_10 5:45

Yeah. I I think the fear delayed us, and we even together collectively, we got into a little bit of analysis paralysis, right? Instead of just doing it, we were like, well, what if we did this and what if we did that? And are we gonna talk about that? Are we gonna talk about this? But I think after we did that first episode, we realized we just gotta be us. Because we recorded that first episode scared and we were holding back and it didn't feel right, it didn't feel like us. So we ended up throwing that first episode out and re-recording because we were like, this just it's not working because we were in that place of fear. We specifically we like, man, our kids are gonna listen to this. Can we really say this stuff? Can we really tell them how it was? Right. But we had to move past that fear, or you wouldn't have what you have right now.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

So I would caution people to do things afraid and not fear. For fear stands for get everything and run, meaning y'all delayed it, versus do it scared and then use that anxiety that you're feeling to now better prepare yourself. So whatever you guys, the think tank when y'all were having the discussions offline to think how can we make this happen, that was your body producing a certain level of health anxiety to now, hey unk seasons and how it is now, to where it's clean, polished, and it's you guys on camera doing the things that you love doing.

SPEAKER_10 7:18

So what you just said, healthy anxiety. I don't know that people have a real concept of what that is. So talk to us a little bit about what do you mean by healthy anxiety.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

So anxiety in low amounts is healthy because it's gonna push your brain to now think, prepare, to be focused, to now visualize the outcome of the situation. Unhealthy anxiety is gonna stop you from even moving forward at all. So think about if you have to do a public speaking event. You might write your lines down, practice walking in the mirror, saying it, that's healthy. Because now when you get in front of it, you've already envisioned yourself and what the audience may look like and react to now be sharp and crisp. But an unhealthy level of anxiety will make you not even want to get out the bed, throwing up vomiting, just body's not itself.

SPEAKER_10 8:02

Yeah.

unknown 8:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_10 8:03

So even there, you can still be nervous about something as long as you're pushing forward.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_10 8:10

Yeah. That that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

I uh just in preparation for this, I I was actually prepared for that part of it because I didn't take into account that there are levels to anxiety and the healthy anxiety is is also is is what puts you in protection mode too. Make sure alert, make sure aware. You do know that there are unknowns, but mentally you're sort of prepared for them to deal with them, and you're open to the fact that, hey, this could happen, but what am I gonna do in the event that it does? So Yeah, I'm I'm glad you mentioned that because that part is overlooked in terms of anxiety because it's usually has just a negative connotation. Right. And there's nothing positive associated with anxiety.

SPEAKER_10 8:52

Yeah. So I I know here lately, Mark, we've been talking about anxiety quite a bit, and and it was one of the reasons we wanted to get in this episode. So are there what what are the things that you've been experiencing with a lot of life changes over the last couple of years?

Grief And The Pressure To Keep Going

SPEAKER_08 9:12

So for me, um, I'm glad you brought up the exact part. It's it's been tough dealing with uh the loss of my wife, loss, just the changes in my job situation. Um anxiety has crept into me like never before here recently because of the uncertainty of things that I I don't control and I don't like it. I have had some opportunity. I mean, I've I I've really gone through what is a depression mode, not wanting to get up sometimes in the morning. Um, you know, I can be transparent on that. Um, you know, and then I just had to realize for me, it's about renewing my mind. You know, I had to make sure, which is kind of what you're talking about, uh, realizing who I am, what I can accomplish, and not be so afraid. Um, some things I've done, I man, all I gotta do is push inner. I've been petrified to push in on it. For the reason of, you know. The reason that you told yourself? The reason that I told myself for, you know, like for fear of failure, like you were speaking about. Um, but I'm failing because I won't push inner. You know what I mean? So it's so important um to realize that. And that's just something that, oh, I'm pushing the end of the day. This do trust that. And at this morning, I was like, as we were preparing, I was like, man, you gotta do better. You know what I mean? I'm I got I've learned that um I've always had my family to push me. Um I still do, but it's like in this time, it's kind of like the man in the mirror. It's just me now. You know, my family, but it's me, and I gotta learn how to focus on me and what's gonna make me better. And uh for years I used it. It wasn't an excuse, but it was it was my reality at the time that my family depended on me. Well, my kids grown. I really do that now. So it's like taking that next step. What about you? You know, and I think that's important that we do. So I'm learning myself now. So this this topic is I love this, you know.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

So not knowing what the situation is, we say you're scared to push enter. Failure is a way of learning. Because when we fail, that's when we learn the most. Because you learn what not to do in preparation or get to that next step. Right. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_08 11:30

I know it didn't mean when I said that I don't know. It just don't mean I didn't I it's it's the craziest thing, though. It's like I would literally hike myself up and then talk myself out of it for no apparent reason. No apparent reason. And find a way to justify it. There was a time when I could justify it. Like I would use the protection thing. Well, if this doesn't go right, oh my God, what is gonna happen? But what if it goes right?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Right. I mean, saying that earlier, man, that was I mean, because nobody ever thinks about that. Yeah, you don't think it works. Right. Yeah, you always think about the bad. You don't focus on the good. That thought process is crazy. I mean, it's not like I'm oblivious to it. I just never apply it when this when it comes to something I'm not sure about.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

I'll give you guys another way to remember that. So think about when that what if it doesn't go right. That's an automatic negative thought. So think about the analogy of like if you it's about to be hot outside summertime. What would you do if you saw one ant crawling on your kitchen counter?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

He's done.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Why?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

But the fear more coming?

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah. The fear of what? It's gonna go back and get some. Yeah, yeah. So start challenging those negative thoughts when they pop in your mind. Write it down and now write the possibilities of what could happen out of this. And think the ant analogy is automatic negative thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

So don't kill the ant? Kill it. Kill it. Yeah. Address it.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Hey, I'm having this negative thought, but what could be some positive outcomes behind it? Because if you let it fester, it's gonna go back and get more negative thoughts. And sooner or later, you got a house full of ants and you don't know what to do. I see. I ain't put that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:07

Yeah. You brought that home. I like it. I love it. Yeah. All right. So I D-Rock. Yeah. And one of the things I'm sorry, and he docked. It was bad. Nobody can be on the body.

SPEAKER_10 13:21

You know, you gotta respect it. So one of the things that kind of struck me in the analogy you just used in your own life was you're not giving yourself any grace, right? You're being extremely hard on yourself. Brock, this is or Dr. Grace. This is one of the things I wanted to ask you about.

Giving Yourself Grace Again

SPEAKER_10 13:43

Your practice is name give grace. Yes. Right. So for listeners that feel like they're struggling to keep it together and are having those negative thoughts and negative emotions about themselves, what does it actually mean for someone to give themselves grace?

SPEAKER_04 14:03

To set yourself up for time that you can now pour back into yourself. One of the things I always ask people, who were you before you became a dad, a husband, a CEO, who was Stuart, Shannon, Mark? Who are you guys? Who did what did you like to do as just individuals? Before you became a dad, before you became unks, what did you all like to do just as guys?

SPEAKER_06 14:23

You want the real the rants, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 14:26

All right. For me, yeah. I and I'm for beyond. It was all about chasing women. Okay. Flirtation. I love to flirt. I love talking to women. And it doesn't even have to go anywhere. That was just my thing. I love I love the game.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

The female energy coming your way. Okay. Yeah, I'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_06 14:49

I thought you were saying there are a reason for your best friend.

SPEAKER_04 14:53

So then how often do you allow yourself to do that? Oh, I don't. Not anymore. But is that okay to be at the grocery store? Oh, ma'am, you're beautiful. Oh, so you're handsome, and then just walk out. Yeah. That would be fine with me. But I don't do it. Okay. Outside of that, but think of the other things you might have liked doing. That now as men, you we just don't because we have all these other obligations of take care of my wife, my children, the community. When does Shannon and Margaret Stewart just allow themselves to take care of him?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Right. I was absolutely, you know, to dig deeper into that was like trying to really think what did I enjoy doing? I mean, that was what you're saying is true. We did that, it was sort of came natural. But you take that us away, then what was it?

SPEAKER_10 15:38

Yeah. I well, I know one of the things we all used to love to do that, and I don't know why we don't do it anymore. But high school football. Oh yeah. We used to go to games with year and then we're playing, but even after. Right. When was the last time we went to a game?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

15 years ago? 15 years ago? And the thing about it is, too, but that was a sign, and I think uh our producer, and I talked about this offset a little bit earlier. We need a gravitation, something to pull us in. You know, we even know we enjoy it, but there's no stake in it. So, you know, the fact that his little brother's playing, like ding, ding, ding. And I got an excuse because I immediately say, Well, what's the schedule? Like, I want to get back to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Why do you need an excuse to put your name on your calendar though? Say that again. Why do you need an excuse to make time for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Well, it's like I was saying, in that regard, it was really about I love football, but I just didn't have a reason to go because I didn't know nobody that was playing. Okay. So now that I have a rooting interest, it it's it's forcing me back out there. Uh we have since replaced that with golf. Yeah. Okay. Now that's the thing now. Right. For sure. Making the time is is is is just becoming increasingly difficult as of late anyway. Uh, because we played not at all as a collective this year. Not one time. And that's unheard of over the six years. Yeah, we're in April.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

And y'all couldn't found one day in the last four months.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

We have found a single day in the last four months for the three of us to get together to play.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

I would challenge each one of you all to put your own name on your calendar. So that when you see it, make it as important as a doctor's appointment, dentist's appointment, whatever, and don't break it. Yeah. So now you know I'm gonna go do something that I enjoy doing with my guys. And I'll give you an example. Me and my guys go out to eat at least once a month. That we do something. And before we leave that event, we now look at each other's calendars and put it, we schedule the next one. So we always have something positive to look forward to, because remember, anxiety is something you've imagined.

SPEAKER_08 17:40

So, you know, interesting, you brought that up. I'm learning how to do things on my own. Okay. Um, in the sense of not having my wife. Again, we've been together a long time as a family, you know what I mean? And it's tough. It was tough for me to adjust to not, even though I can call my boys up, I know my wife's gonna be with their wives. You know what I mean? And not having that for me and learning how to say, you know what, I'm gonna go to this, hang, just sit and hang out. I'm gonna learn how to do these things all over again. I'm gonna go somewhere by myself and flirt or speak to somebody. And that that's been tough doing, but doing it a couple of times to your point, it may it has made a difference in, you know, with me, but I'm still I still go through those phases where it's still kind of hard. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 18:34

So you've been hollering at folks? I mean, I've been saying, hey, how you doing? You know, you look nice, you know, those types of things. You know, it feels good, sir. You know. So yeah, so I get your point.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

You know the question we used to have when he's coming, you get the number. I'm trying to get there.

SPEAKER_06 18:52

Oh, you know. Come on, bro. You know, he put them green eyes on. Yeah, you get contact.

SPEAKER_09 18:58

You look at contact? Oh my God. He's a okay, anyway. Try to there's a reason why you don't tell us. Try to say, listen.

SPEAKER_06 19:10

Right. Hanging out with Dr. Grace, you know, try to participate over here. All right. Oh, we ain't gonna talk about Dr. Grace back in the day. No, sir. Listen, we can. He wasn't always Dr. Grace. That's right. He was always Jedi too.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

That's right. He was a Jedi too. I heard he was a real good loose sky walker. Oh, he was to your Yoda.

SPEAKER_06 19:35

He was a very kind of woman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 19:40

But yeah, man, and I think with this conversation, too, because one of the things you pointed out is we are still individuals, even outside of all our other responsibilities. And I know I can speak for me, and I think I can speak for them too. Even though our kids are grown now, it's still hard to break that. Okay. Right? I still feel responsible for my child, and I know they do too. But you have younger kids as you're dealing with this kind of just constant buzz of what's going on in the world. Do you try and isolate the kids from what's happening to protect them? Do you find ways to discuss all of these kind of topics and what, even what anxiety is with the kids? Kind of how do you approach parenting in this kind of uncertainty?

Talking To Kids About Hard Things

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Great question. So I take an example from like my mother. She always had an open policy of communication. And so if there's something that they need to be exposed to, I try to expose it to them on the levels of an eight and 10-year-old. Because sometimes they'll come home from school and say something I'm like, ooh, I didn't know we were here yet. But somebody said in your class or school, so now I'm gonna have the conversation about it. So me and Daniela sit down and talk to them and answer questions as truthfully as we can about things, but not too much to overload their little minds with things that they shouldn't be ready to process yet and handle because they know mommy and daddy have it.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

And if you guys are still feeling that as adults, that just means you're good fathers. It's never gonna be your job not to feel like you're supposed to protect the ones you brought into this world. So I don't think that ever goes away to a sense because, you know, my wife's my father-in-law still wants to protect his daughter and she's 40-something years old. Just a good dude.

SPEAKER_10 21:24

Yeah. I told Naya yesterday she was just she was three years old two weeks ago. Yeah. That's what it feels like. She's about to turn 24.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

That's not even dog years, bro.

SPEAKER_08 21:36

What you call that? I tell you what, I love my kids, but I told them I need five minutes. Can I get five minutes or nothing? I need absolutely nothing to go wrong for five minutes. Five minutes. Whatever that means, they they was just like, damn, you just how would you?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

It's the best way to put this. Um Advise someone, because I for me I'm sort of a political junkie. Okay. It is Be careful how much of that stuff you watch. You have to. Yeah. You have to. So I guess that's the start. But still, for someone who consumes an overwhelming amount and I don't let it govern my life in terms of, you know, I go home and have to build a bunker in the ground and things of that nature. Though I might need to, but it feels like that. For real. But um but yeah, what what would you say to people who do who are conscious and consuming all this stuff and that feel powerless to do anything about it?

Build A Healthier News Diet

SPEAKER_04 22:37

One limit the amount of time you spend watching the news outlets. I'm not saying who watches what, but how much of the information you're taking in. Also when you're taking it in. Are you starting your day off the first thing in the morning learning something terrible about a war or politician or something? That sets the tone for your day.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Don't you?

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Do it when you now have enough time. I wouldn't do it before you go to bed either. Maybe during the middle of the day, we used to have time to kind of focus on other things. So it's not the first thing setting a tone for your day or the last thing at night before you go to bed, and then your body's dealing with whatever, you know, senator or presidential, whoever did what. Now some bullshit. Yeah, some bullshit. Now Stu is taking that on and probably bringing it right back to his house.

SPEAKER_08 23:14

Right. Not knowing it. I used to take on Orange Julius at night, piss me off. Take on what? Orange Julius. That's what I call.

SPEAKER_09 23:21

Oh, okay. I was like, I call it. Yeah. I had no idea what he was talking about.

SPEAKER_08 23:28

Orange Julius. So I gotcha. Yeah, to your point, um, I know our conscious mind continuously takes over our like it when we sleep at night, you know what I mean? And and we consume that stuff. And to your point, I would literally go to bed at night and then I wake up, look for my phone, what has happened, you know what I mean? And that, yeah. Learning how to cut that off is bad.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

You know what I wish I'd have learned earlier though, is that you can ascend to be the president of the United States and make more money in a role that you're not supposed to make money in. You he to make more money than humanly possible in such a short period of time.

SPEAKER_10 24:12

Well, and that's a sign of not having a moral center, right? Exactly. You there's a reason, there's a statement between that behind every great fortune is a great crime, right? There's a reason for that. If you don't have a moral compass, it's easy to make money because you'll just cheat people. You'll cheat the system, you'll cheat people, and you won't care. None of us are gonna do that. Right? So that and that's the difference. He does not care. And the people that support him do not care about what happens to other people. They have a lack of empathy, and and that's why we are in the place that we are.

SPEAKER_08 24:52

But the craziest thing is happening to them, and they still vote for that bull.

SPEAKER_10 24:59

But and that's happened throughout our history, it's part of our history. People supporting politicians, people supporting the church, even though in the vast majority of our history, the church has been one of the most negative institutions in the world. They have enslaved and impauperished and controlled people more than any other institution. Now, people are gonna get pissed off when they hear that. Historically, it's the truth.

SPEAKER_05 25:27

It is, right?

SPEAKER_10 25:28

It is the absolute truth. He didn't say all. I didn't say all. I didn't say all. And and I get it that that institution can be a source of inspiration, peace, comfort, and I would never want to take that away from anyone. But the institution of religion has consistently been used to oppress people throughout our history, and it's still doing it. How in the hell do we have billionaire preachers?

SPEAKER_06 26:03

Things that make well go that makes no sense. When you say billioness people, right.

SPEAKER_10 26:11

I get that in Winston, North Carolina, where we're from, there's literally, and I did this experiment, you cannot drive for more than a minute in Winston without passing a judge. I don't care where you are, you cannot. But Winston has homeless people. How? How? Yeah. I get it. I'm not talking about poor people. Okay. Right? That's that's a whole different thing. How are there homeless people if you have a church on every corner? I don't get it. But anyway, that's not what this topic is about.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

We'll go ahead and we'll have to have a whole conversation on that. I was about to say something, and then this is what I learned this week. And this is not, we're not technically debating, but you can get off center because I was about to address that into your point. Yeah, that's not the time to do it. But when you're having a conversation, you have to stay on your points. You can't let people move you off your square. Correct. And great points, but we are about to get moved off the square.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

We are with us.

SPEAKER_06 27:19

What does it mean? I digress.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Because I'm still suffering from anxiety for a different reason. No, I actually'm pretty good at the space.

SPEAKER_10 27:31

So now with that though, Brock, and in your practice, you know, you deal with a wide range of different demographics, right?

Personal Anxiety Versus Collective Anxiety

SPEAKER_10 27:41

So is there a difference between or can you distinguish between someone's personal anxiety and the kind of collective anxiety that's going around and kind of things that are impacting them from the outside versus inside? Is there a difference?

SPEAKER_04 28:00

Only after talking to people for a while. So like collectively, we all dealt with COVID when it first came out. The anxiety of like not knowing what this virus is gonna do. If we go outside or we're gonna die, we talk to a family member. But then we think of like just personal anxiety, one of the things I try to do is figure out if they're now dealing with the war or the president, or if it's now something job related. Because you know, job is personal versus political climate is like worldview. And I try to help them distinguish where's this anxiety coming from? What's the main source of it? And after talking to them for a couple sessions, it it unveils itself. Well, like you said, I've been watching a lot of politicians, news. Mark and I talked about hit and enter as a personal. Yours is more worldview. So then I try to help them navigate can we pause on how much you limit versus can we now go forward and hit and enter to go to that next level that you're dealing with? Yeah. And I want to piggyback off something you said earlier, and you said also you kept saying I. If you spell the word anxiety, I is in the middle. What happens when you take yourself out of it? Meaning, reach out to those natural supports to now strengthen as a community to not deal with the situation by yourself.

SPEAKER_10 29:04

I'd love to get your thoughts on that because you always stress how important a tribe is. Absolutely. How does that hit with you?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Well, I mean, first I thought he was gonna tell me it's gonna spell another word. I was waiting on that too.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

That's what I was waiting on too. I was like, oh my God, I can't wait to see what this word is gonna be. I was doing the same thing, said I'm trying to spell it.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

But uh, but no, that that that but that's perfect, but it's pitch perfect, actually, because uh, you know, in hindsight, I I will fall back to my guys. And when I'm it may not come out as I'm having an issue, I may bring it up just as a question, throw it out there and and just see what comes of it. And then sometimes it is something that one of you guys may say that I can kind of grab and and make use of that and not sit and dwell on because I I I can't help feeling like I need to understand what's going on globally, how this gonna impact us, maybe from a business standpoint, and then ultimately how is that gonna hit personally. So I'm bringing it from here to see how it's gonna get to us here. And I guess I'm looking for where do I need to pivot and put up protections to make sure that I can shield us from the things that are going on outside of what we can control.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Is it to shield them or you want to educate them?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

I'll be honest, it's probably more shielding. Trying to prevent them from having to deal with something that they may not even see coming. I would say educate them so you all can try to work together to prevent whatever's coming your way. But that's why it's so important you said the I. Because to your point, that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Versus we as a whole. Exactly. And Shannon can attest, I'll call you randomly be like, hey, I just want to run something about you. I know he might have done it in life or experience or have more knowledge on it. Hey, Shannon and Gina, can I go at y'all for 10 minutes? Cool. It gives me a different perspective on it. I'm not alone in this because Shannon has already been through it, done it. Maybe I can't do it the same way he did it, but I can take something from his experiences and now make mine a little bit smoother.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Right. Yoda. Yeah, that's what Yoda's for.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

That's what you're here for. You're blessed to be able to do that, my brother. I am.

SPEAKER_10 31:22

And I appreciate that. Gotta take care of my babies. As we kind of switch gears a little bit, Brock, one other point I wanted to get to is on your site, one of the things, and and then your profile you talk about is this moving from survival mode to kind of stability, right? Um and when you're having these conversations with your tribe and with your family, how do you keep how do you keep that in a positive light versus it being just a reaction or feeling like you're lashing out at your family when it may not even be them that's that's the issue?

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Well, so one of the things that Danielle and I are able to do, if she notices I'm just having a bad day or they got me, she may suggest that I go do something that's just for me. Because you all mentioned just this protective, I gotta take on this whole world mentality, right? But what would happen if Gina said, Shannon, you and the boys need to go golfing a day. She knows something's going on here. She may not know what it is. Shannon, you need to call Mark and Stu. Y'all need to go get 18 hoes in. Yeah. That now gives you the outlet, right? So one of the things we've been able to do is kind of call each other out on it of like, baby, you know, I got I got the kids tonight. You seem like something's going on. And she does a good job of that for me. So therefore I don't bring a lot of it home. Also, if ever there are times where she gives me something that I might need to reflect on, I now need to sit with that for a second and be like, well, why is she seeing this in me?

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

And let's be honest, we make mistakes with our kids. Apologize to them. If you lashed out one day because you had a bad day at work and you said something nigga the wrong way, baby, I'm sorry. That's not how I meant that. I'm dealing with this. It came out on you. I apologize.

SPEAKER_10 33:03

So be willing to admit when those things happen and have that conversation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Not just because I said so.

SPEAKER_08 33:11

Yeah. You know, it's funny, even though we're on that topic, I just want you to know how how fortunate and how blessed you all are, you and Danielle, to be able to have that opportunity to share, you know, that with each other and recognize, you know, that, hey, my husband needs this or my wife needs this. You know, that's so important, you know, in a marriage. That's all.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

It took some time to get that now. You know, because then you think, oh, I guess I know what I'm doing, whatever. But it's like, well, maybe she she might be right. I married her for a reason.

SPEAKER_10 33:41

So and that's an important thing to remember. Uh we talked about in in one of the episodes this season about how you had those phases in your marriage. And, you know, I know for me it was when you hit that seven-year mark, it's just that's a tough year in marriages. Remembering I married this person for a reason when you're going through those tough times, and that that could be uh a great help to kind of sit take a step back right before you escalate a situation. Now getting back into these political conversations when you have family members that are supporting the orange Cheeto, for an example.

Boundaries With Political Family

SPEAKER_10 34:26

I like that one. Okay. Glad that one. Okay, that one to your list. What what are in I know I'll speak personally, I think you said this on air too. With people that are supporting some of this foolishness that's going on, I just can't deal with them. There's no level of communicating with them, trying to convince them, trying to be reasonable. I'm just cutting them off and I'm not dealing with them. Is that a valid strategy?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

No, that's a boundary you're putting up. You're saying this is I don't want to have this type of interaction in my life. This is what works best for Shannon. Maybe this season, while you're supporting whatever political few, I'm not rocking with you. I've been at a family member's house, and I'm saying whole family, meet Daniel side, all families included, where they were having a debate on something. This person was supporting Trump's views. I was not in a conversation. He approached me. I got him left. I said, What makes you think I want to talk about this? I didn't want to be in it from the beginning, and I left their home. Like, that's my stance. Hey, we can talk about anything else. I'm not rocking with you on your views. You want to talk about football, love, marriage, I don't support you. I'm leaving. And he took offense to it, but that's not what I want to do with that day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 35:44

See, for me, and I understand that because I I feel that part. And I think it's a season of that. You use the word season. Where's the grace in that? You get what I'm saying? Like at some point, Or Julius is gonna get the hell out of the way. And all he's there for is to cause division amongst people. I mean, we we're gonna, we're suffering from this for a long time. And I understand people have their views and so forth, but where do you take a stance and say, okay, you know, I had one time had love for this person, but I can't allow, well, I don't know how to say it. It's like how I can't allow my political views to overshadow the relationship. You know what I mean? Like, where is that? Is there a boundary for that? Because I agree at some point I gotta step away. Because I can't deal with you now. But when do I say, man, I miss my cousin? Or man, I miss my uncle. You know what I mean? Where where does that, where is that?

SPEAKER_04 36:44

So for me, it's am I in the headspace to have a conversation about politics? If so, then maybe we may be able to chop it up. I can hear your views say mine, cool. But if that's all you want to talk about every time I see you. Of course. Then we ain't. We ain't I'll feel you on that. But this season, me and Mark may not be talking to each other because I still love him. Hope he does well. But if every time you come to me, oh, did you see, did you? Nah, man, I didn't. I don't want to talk about that right now. Right. Because it's a heavy topic that makes people feel a certain way, no matter what side you support, somebody's gonna lead a conversation with hurt feelings, and now you gotta patch it up at the family cookout.

unknown 37:17

Right.

SPEAKER_08 37:18

See, I'm petty.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 37:19

And I I mean why I'm petty is I wanna be, I kind of had an attitude like, I told you so. Now you're now your butt going through what everybody, you know, how do you support? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 37:28

Some of that is is what needs to happen, though. Yeah, right. It's not gonna always be people have to learn. Yeah. You learn from that mistake or that failure and keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_10 37:37

All right. So now we're gonna

Childhood Trauma Has No Timer

SPEAKER_10 37:40

transition. It's time for my boy. Stew's question of the week. What you got for us?

SPEAKER_01 37:44

All right. So let me just touch bases on this real quick. So this came up in a conversation I was having a couple of weeks ago. My wife, well, it wasn't a conversation. She said something that sparked the thought for the question. So how long, how long does it take, or how long should it take, or is there a time frame for somebody to allow a childhood trauma to still impact them now? Some 20, 30, 40 years later?

SPEAKER_04 38:15

There's no time. I don't know. I get people who are in their 50s still dealing with stuff that happened to them when they were eight, nine years old. Because it it depends on when they were ready to now address it.

unknown 38:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

And maybe what brought that childhood trauma back up in their lives. I wouldn't say you can get over it in two years, three years, four years, because what if them first 10 years of life they had to suppress it and just act like they were okay before they were really to acknowledge the situation that they went through.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

But I guess and then this is not even like a personal situation, it's just dealing with multiple people, period. I mean, like they continue, people continuously use that. So I I hear you, but at 50, why do I need to deal with something you haven't addressed, you know, 30, 40 years ago?

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Now I'm not saying you should. I would recommend them to get help. Like if you know it's still bothering them at age 50, 60, 40, whatever. Man, who have you sought to talk to to kind of work through whatever his or her issue is? But if they haven't dealt with it, it's always gonna be there. And let's be honest, we all deal with stuff from our childhood, right? Have you ever bought your kid something because you didn't have it as a kid?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Uh yeah, I'm sure I have. Absolutely. I've done a lot of people. Right. But I guess you look at that a little differently because that was sort of the mission in life was to try to make have, you know, give them more, make life better for them than it was for you. Not to say I didn't have a good life coming up, but you still wanted to do better. And that was that was just a goal. And I never looked at it as like a trauma. Not trauma, but you're still healing something. I can see what you're saying in that regard.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Yeah, my kids have a trampoline now. They didn't need it at two and three years old. I never had one. That was what I wanted. Y'all are getting one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was healing my inner childhood. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_06 40:00

That's just uh that's the positive side.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

But I was gonna say, now that isn't that isn't that is a good thing in in in that regard, but it's just obviously I'm looking at from, you know, you got that's you know, obviously these ain't one my only friends. I got a lot of friends that I deal with, and I've still got a And you still hanging on to that?

SPEAKER_08 40:19

I think it's a real thing though for people. Um if they've never really addressed it.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:24

And if they don't address it, they don't know how to handle it. You know what I mean? And it's like, what do and if I knew if I'm familiar with that and I understand that, I think it's important the person on the other side of that has to understand that too. Like, it's like trigger words. Like, I, you know, my wife's not here, but my wife went through some things. And um when she went through some mental abuse things, physical, all that stuff, there would be words that I would, I could use on our early marriage, and I would be like, why you got your head down? We just disagreeing. And she began to share with me what that was about. And I was like, wait a minute. No, we're not doing that. I am not there, you know. And I'm like, okay, one, I can't use those words anymore. Two, don't you ever do that to me, you know, because I am not that person. So until we started addressing that issue and talking about it, I couldn't, I couldn't do my part because if I had to stay who I was, who knows? You know what I'm saying? So I just think it's important that we always, if we understand what that person's dealing with, yes, they need to get help. But I think it's our role too to make sure we don't enhance that, make that worse. You know what I mean? That childhood trauma. Because everybody just don't get over it the way, you know, like we do.

SPEAKER_10 41:42

And and we talked about this in the Daddy Issues episode last season, uh, how our experiences with our fathers have shaped who we are as dads today. But I do think there's also, especially with the younger generations now and the younger parents, that I've seen this whole manifestation of soft parenting and them wanting to be their kid's best friend. That's not helping your child, right? And I think that's they're not dealing with some of the negative things that happened in their childhood where they may have felt isolated, they may have felt alone, and their parents weren't there in the way they thought they should be, but it is having a ongoing negative impact on them. But for a lot of people, to your point, they're not ready to have that conversation. They're like, no, this is my kid, this is the way I'm gonna do it. Well, great. Now, when your kid goes off and start hitting teachers because you didn't institute any discipline or home training, well, then this is what you're gonna get. So there there can be positive impacts of dealing with that childhood trauma even later in life. But I think not dealing with some of it, or even in in that example, they're dealing with it. They're just not dealing with it in a positive way, right? They're taking it in a direction that it is not gonna be as beneficial for their child. But how do they know that?

SPEAKER_08 43:28

I mean, you know what I mean? Like that for their they're dealing with it. They building the best way they know how.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

They need grace. That's right.

SPEAKER_10 43:38

They need to go talk to somebody because I think those things manifest. You see your kid acting out. You see how your kid does something, misbehaves in public, and all of it. You you know that. Now, there's a lot of things that and I think Mike talked about this, right? The way we were raised. Yeah, we don't. want to pass those some of those parenting techniques for, right? Your first inclination should be to smack your kid upside down. You shouldn't be doing that. Right. So yeah, I I think you need to and maybe, Brock, this is where you have to look at your overall community too and what's around you to kind of see what is working or what happened. So as you're dealing with all of this stuff, how much does being active in the community matter?

Community And Marriage As Anchors

SPEAKER_04 44:33

Very much so. So yesterday, Zoe and Skylar were, they were grandma this weekend. She wanted to take them to go volunteer at like a community homeless shelter. We now taught them the benefits of doing that. Right. You know, we want to expose them to different things or if they're around you guys, they're getting a lot from each other that we may not be doing as parents or be able to provide for them, but at least they grow up and have that totality man side of Uncle Stu taught me something, Uncle Shannon taught me this, Uncle Mark taught me this, now you're a better individual. Maybe daddy couldn't teach you that, but you got it from somebody who could to make you a better individual in life. And that's kind of what we want for us. And I know as they get older they may not want to talk to us even more, but let's say they call one of your daughters. Cool. I know they were raised in solid homes so they're still getting great information that they don't want to hear from you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 45:16

That is so funny because I can't imagine living in a world where I didn't have my cousins.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 45:24

I I I don't and I've met people when I was especially when I was in the military that they might have one cousin or they don't have any cousins that they talk to. I'm like, dude, how do you live?

SPEAKER_04 45:35

But it's a reality.

SPEAKER_08 45:36

It's a reality.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

It's not our reality but it's a reality for a lot of people that don't I don't talk to my cousins anymore.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

It's like well my cousins are like brothers. Right. That's crazy. I can yeah I can't even imagine that world but it's a real thing. It is it is two of them I talked to this week we talked all the time it's yeah I just can't imagine not that's crazy.

SPEAKER_10 46:00

Yeah. I mean we have a WhatsApp group it's just the cousins. You know and we reach out and it may you may not even be talking about anything but every once in a while we'll reach out hey I was in what's going on yeah or hey the kids are going to go do this this weekend. Anybody that's available, bring the kids. You you have to have that kind of community interaction. And for those that don't I challenge you to find it. There there's resources out there to get involved with as much as we may not like people sometimes and God knows I don't a lot of times but you need that community connection. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 46:39

So all right so as as we wind down the episode I'm going to turn it over to my boy what what are your words of wisdom this year you know kind of hit them a lot hit them all today but I will just share you know again speaking today it's important that we renew our mind stay focused on what truly matters um and continue to grow and don't allow that negative environment to be within you know what I mean so stay consistent and keep negative negative things out of you. You know I think that's important. So renewing your mind is the way to go constantly how do you renew your mind? How do I renew my mind? I just I started thinking about the things that matter to me aside from the stuff I taught you. I forgot who I was talking to when I knew this was going to go left we'll talk about it later when I get rid of I got so many words I want to use right now. But anyway make sure you redo your mind.

SPEAKER_10 47:38

Leave it at that one so Brock we cannot let you leave without at least touching on from your episode last season when we got into relationships and managing relationships because there was a lot of feedback in that episode right one of our best episodes sparked a lot of great conversation so as we're looking at dealing with all of this and dealing with in the terms of anxiety and uncertainty and life and all these things that's going to inevitably creep into your marriage in one way or another right or in your relationship. It doesn't even have to be a marriage what are some of the things you counsel people on how to deal with that or or how to protect your your family and your household to not let those things creep in.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

So for me personally I make sure that the three people in my household are happy at the end of the night Danielle, Zoe Schuyler. If they're good, usually life is going well for me. Then we start talking about outside family members, right? Because even though you may love somebody you may not always line up with their opinions. Oh yeah. Let's be honest you were there when I pissed the whole family off when I decided to lope and only Shannon and Gina got invited, I was doing what's best for us at that time period. Everybody just had to grow to understand that's how we moved. So I teach couples what's important for the people in that door that you shut and lock at the end of the night. Are they happy? Start there. Then let that grace kind of overflow into your bigger communities, the people you work with church members whoever to now take care of them. But always focus on you first kind of like when you're on an airplane they say if it's going down put your mask on first before you reach over to somebody else. I know it sounds selfish but that's you taking care of you before taking away from resources from your household.

SPEAKER_10 49:31

Yeah. That was a hard lesson for me to learn and and I had to learn it. But it was a hard lesson to learn.

SPEAKER_08 49:40

Claire I'm asking when you say take care of you, you mean you, Danielle and your girl absolutely that's in as in a one unit, right? Okay. I just want to make sure that's clarified because I agree with that.

SPEAKER_10 49:50

And so one of the things that came up in that previous episode that we want to touch on to just briefly. And you know where I'm going you know where I'm going. Well I gotta be briefly but okay. Well we're not going to harp on it people can go back and watch the previous episode. But in the relationship with your wife or partner how do you keep things fresh especially over time right? Because I think a lot of people and I think people of our age too we went through our kids were all the focus. Our kids are grown they're no longer the focus at least not the day-to-day focus right so that distraction is gone we're a little bit later in our careers so maybe you need you're not hustling 60 hours a week right trying to build a career anymore so now that distraction's gone now the two of y'all sitting in this house together how do you how how do you learn each other again?

SPEAKER_04 50:49

So we have difficult conversations often right meaning if something comes up that I may not understand that she doesn't, we'll sit down and talk about it. Now am I always right of her no but at least I know how she's changing as we have gone on 16 years of marriage to know she's not the same girl I married when we were 25 and 27. We're different in our 40s. Right now our focal point is getting the kids to the next level but we still plan things without the kids all the time. Like we took them on vacation a couple months ago they know the next one they're not going. And I preach to my kids from one year old up until now mommy and daddy need time alone to continue to be in love with each other. And I tell them one day you're going to leave me but at the end of the day she's always going to be here and parents sometimes feel like that's harsh to kind of drop their kids off with somebody but if you only focus on the kids what happens when they leave now there's no focal point of big vacuum. It's a big yeah the empty nesters is what they call them. They don't know what to do with themselves versus no, I've been preparing for this for 18 years. They're gone. Hey Danielle me and you can walk around the house free as we want to now and do whatever we want to bucket naked right and enjoy each other. So I would ask you to that's ideal living for you ideal living but to continue to change with your partner because you're not the same Shannon you were when you married Gina however years ago she's not the same Gina. So it's evolving. Evolved with your partner so important to do.

SPEAKER_10 52:08

And and don't wait until those distractions are gone to try and recover that.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

Yeah that's a good love is a is an action word you got to keep pointing to it throughout the course of the marriage or the relationship.

SPEAKER_08 52:19

Yeah. I I'm I like how you said that too having that hard conversation you know you got to have that conversation because when you both grow, you know, okay where are you at now? Where am I at now? You know, and we all we got it's important to do.

SPEAKER_10 52:35

All right. Well we're going to continue this conversation Dr.

Resources And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_10 52:40

Brock Grace of Give Grace Counseling. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

Thank you guys for having me.

SPEAKER_10 52:44

Thank you for the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

Can you share where you located and for those in that area that might meet this located at 1400 Old Mill Circle which is right across from the post office Winston Salem North Carolina suite A and C, phone number 336 893 7742. And with all the services that are available individual marriage family premarital counseling grief I'm not the only one who provides counseling there so it's a lot that we offer the website is www dot givegracecounseling dot com. If anybody wants to look you can click on meet the team and see my bio as well as everybody I work with to kind of get a better understanding of what everybody does within her practices.

SPEAKER_10 53:25

That's awesome. Yeah I would encourage any of our listeners that are struggling in this day and age get help if you need it. Right? And whatever that help looks like for you whether that's going to your family or going to your church or seeking out professional counseling please take care of yourself and and take time to focus on you. Because if you're good then you can help others be good. If you're not in a good place you you're not going to be able to effectively help anyone. So with that again Brock thank you for joining us I'm sure we're going to have you back again in this changing crazy world.

SPEAKER_07 54:09

And yeah we'll we'll get you to talk about politics next time you make sure you had an outfit to wear too well y'all got to tell me y'all dressed it like I didn't get to memo.

SPEAKER_10 54:19

We got a coordinate we appreciate you as always reach out on our social media site on Instagram podcast also on YouTube and TikTok we enjoy the conversation you can also hit us up on our personal pages that'll be in our bios so let's continue the conversation and until next time peace